In case you were wondering if "Republic" is a euphemism for "Totalitarian-Communist Terror State," Plato spells out that the ideal Republic is a Communist terror State. Thanks Plato, that was very forthright of you. (This happens because Plato is a Sophist due to disease, not intent.)
"Women are to be considered as candidates both as potential rulers and auxiliaries. And their education in the arts and in gymnastic is not to be separate but equal: They are to be trained together with the men."
Full biological Fascism.
"Their sexual unions must be conducted under strict surveillance by the rulers."
In Plato's world, voyeurism isn't degenerate.
Nobody can mind their own business. Irresponsibility is not merely encouraged, but mandatory.
"As for the children so produced, they will have to be raised communally and provided for by citizens designated as nurses."
Someone did try the shtetl system. It was of course the Gyews. Not exactly experts at giving up bad ideas, they were still forced to give it up. Don't let gay men tell you how to run a family.
But is it really a terror State?
"Furthermore, the children are not to be permitted to recognize their birth parents"
Thanks for the confirm.
Hands up: who is surprised to see a φαγγωτ hate on love.
Got a bit of a conflict of interest there. Trust must be earned; the West trusted without cause. The Occident can only blame itself for the betrayal.
"they argue that the plan is too unrealistic, "
Nobody is arguing that it's literally Satanic?
No, unfortunately, realism is very much the least of its problems.
"Since everything these Guardians now possess is held in communal ownership, there will exist no bickering about private ownership."
good joke plato
Even with selfless angels Communism is inefficient. With humans the slightest nanosecond of cogitation reveals it's catastrophically bad. Yes Johnny, even on paper.
Communism is irresponsible. Responsibility is a virtue, and Capitalism has repeatedly been shown to be vastly more healthy and virtuous than even the most idealized opium dreams of Sophists. They literally cannot even imagine how good Capitalism is.
Because Sophism works, it's important to kill Communists and Communism whenever possible. With fire, ideally. Because they cannot imagine how good you are with fire, they don't defend themselves properly, which is a nice bonus.
Right now Communists outnumber the sane something like millions to one, so it's not possible, but Gnon will sort that out sooner or later. In the meantime, it's still possible to put up a firewall. They're so bad at imagining fire you can incinerate all incoming communication and they won't even notice there's a barrier, if you do it right.
This whole State business really doesn't sound like Socrates to me. The voice is wrong. The earlier bits may have been real Socrates. Rather than confidently putting forth (an extremely wrong) vision of justice, he a) punctures others' vainglorious self-contradictions and b) is anti-Sophist as opposed to full Sophist. It plain makes more sense if you assume Plato is sneaking his stupid ideas into the mouth of someone more respectable. (Exactly because he knows full well he can't defend them properly; Conquest #1.)
Socrates never wrote anything down because he would prefer you figure it out for yourself. He recognized that the problem is you never search if you think you already know the answer, rather than any inability to search. He thus tried to tell Athenians they didn't already know, so they could figure it out. Socrates isn't interested in making you believe what he believes. He's interested in what you yourself would believe if you weren't in your own way. He wants you to be yourself, but moreso.
Unfortunately, Athenians hated being told to get out of their own way, with such intensity that they killed him. "Hey, uh, your problems are self-inflicted. Maybe stop doing it to yourself?" "No! Fuck you! I'll show you an inflicted problem!" Yes, very mature, Athens. Super classy.
Would literally rather get conquered by Rome rather than admit they haven't always been perfect angels. Socrates tried to save you from Muslim genetic vandalism, but you'd prefer to be permanently debased rather than listen to him, so now your IQ is 92. Gnon heard your wishes and granted them.
I like to think real Socrates would have shredded Plato. They met; he probably did, in fact. Do you think Socrates would have avoided Plato, judging him a lost cause? I find it highly plausible. Also Plato was probably creepy and cringe in person. Ew.
"Run away with me!" "Umm...yeah I'm going with the hemlock on this one."
"Run away with me!" Socrates thinks about that for a moment, then frantically slurps down the poison.
"And when Socrates is asked what is "wrong" with the real state as we know it, as opposed to the realization of the ideal state, Socrates replies that states nowadays"
Plato's method is not fundamentally wrong. It's that he's a Sophist and Sophists don't build right even on sound foundations.
I imagine idealized States all the time. The difference: I modify my vision downward when I find there's a good reason the non-ideal State is the way it is.
It's much easier to think about whether a State is screwing up if you compare it to an ideal State. Rather than having to derive ideal policy from first principles, you can ask the dramatically easier question: what's stopping the practical State from being the ideal State?
Sometimes, you learn that little things like physics and biology are stopping it from being the ideal State. You learn about the ideal. Tamp it down and get a less stupid ideal. "...is that I know nothing," or some such.
Fascists like Plato are utopian. Rather than admitting that some imperfections are unavoidable, they wrap themselves in narcissistic delusion. Ironically, they end up actively opposing efforts that would make real situations less imperfect; again, they can't imagine the glorious dynamism of the responsible yet imperfect State. They believe only the narcissist delusions can possibly justify certain remedies.
Technically they aren't even wrong, because their imagined remedies are crimes. Harm, not help. Unjustifiable without lies.
Usually, though, when you imagine the ideal State you learn the real State is corrupt. What's stopping America from plain not having a Prussian school system? Nothing. No good reason. It's historically normal to have no State school system, in fact.
On the contrary, historically
corruption comes first and school systems come second, so school is
prima facie corrupt. Checksum: if we imagine an ideal school system, we
can find myriad factors stopping a real State from implementing it. It's
not just one or two incentives misplaced; every incentive is backwards.
Similarly Singapore has State hospitals, and if anyone could run a good hospital it's Singapore. Except they also have private* hospitals, and they're transcendentally better. All you learn is that States shouldn't run hospitals, and if they do you should avoid them as strenuously as possible. Likewise, if the State had a private school system parallel to a State system, all you would learn would be to avoid the State system like the plague. Glomp a literal leper before you go to a State school.**
*(Not American whore-style "private," private as in genuinely responsible.)
**(Luckily in real life that's not the kind of dichotomies that genuinely occur. Nothing stopping you from avoiding State schools and lepers.)
Plato, of course, founded the Academy.
Academy has retained institutional continuity for over 2000 years. It's
still Plato's Academy, meaning it's still a corrupt Sophist-φαγγωτ
construct. In case you doubt, they call themselves the Academy; call
themselves academics. Maybe, at best, some heroes perverted the intended
corruption into virtue during the Scholastic period. Briefly.
Society was Empiricist, thus diametrically opposed to Platonic
Rationalism. However, making the Academy function scholastically is trying to
drive water uphill. Now the water has merely returned to its natural
As always, the answer is Exit. Don't try to pervert Satan into doing good. If someone offers you an Academy chair: run, don't walk. GTFO.
Aristotle knew. He was there, and he figured it out. Join the Lykeion.