Saturday, January 6, 2024

My Ideal Society is None of My Business

 Security is always affordable. You can secure yourself against lies using known technology. Normally it's known as science. Don't include peer review - that's clearly not science. I call it Logic. That which leads to true prediction is logical. That which doesn't is illogical; it's a back-definition. Regardless of any issues you may have with my definition, Logic is already known. The field is already mature, it already works.

 Although Logic is known, there is no demand. The modern world has zero truth supply because there is zero truth demand. Instead, there is high demand for lies and anti-truth security. My ideal society instead has high truth demand and demand for anti-lie technology. 

 There will be some Truth about how to best run this society. I don't decide what the Truth is - I merely attempt to speak on its behalf. If some society has high Truth demand, they will discover these truths whether I tell them or not. As a result, how they run their society is none of my business. Caveat: they may find that hiring me is the cheapest way to discover the Truth, in which case it is my business, but only indirectly. I would just do my job, merely cooperate with cooperators, which coincidentally would be Truth-related. 

 

 That said the top-level organization of a Veritas society is known. 

 Quis custodiet: there is a Pope, who decides who is and isn't lying. If 1 = 0, you can prove anything. False evidence must be persecuted. The society employs security against liars, preventing them from speaking or publishing.

 Rule of Law is impossible. The exact problem at hand is that the Law only enforces itself on long timescales. Further: the punishment is typically catastrophic. Maximally ungentle. As if the Law intentionally lets you run up a debt so it can punish you as savagely as possible. The Law favours tremendous suffering, followed by death. Recall that punishment only reduces vicious behaviour if it comes immediately and thus forms a mental association. If you want short-term enforcement, to avoid being punished by the Law, a Man must pick a Law. It's important, so I repeat: you want rules enforced by Man, not the Law. 

 It's important, so I repeat again: someone has to decide who is lying. There is no technique or mechanism that can detect liars, because a liar will introduce a technique or mechanism that overlooks their lies. To get the Truth out of a social institution, it has to already know the Truth. (See also: Revenge is Sour.) Personnel is policy. True people, true policy. Hence, you don't need any special techniques or mechanism. Demand Truth. Respect truthtellers.

 If your Man picks True Law, you get a good cult. If your man picks False Law, you get a devil cult. Thus we need a mechanism for selecting against bad Popes. 

 The mechanism is Exit.
 The inherent nature of parasitism is that it's always profitable to leave a parasitic group. If it doesn't take more than it gives you, it's not parasitic. Consequently, the rule has to be this: the group is legitimate to the extent you can easily leave. Ideally you would have a light switch next to your thermostat; you would be able to leave the group accidentally if you trip in the wrong spot. Pope on. Pope off. Cancel your taxes for Thursday, then flick it back on for Friday. 

 Cooperation is not in fact hard. This problem is trivial to anyone who employs anti-lie security. Don't allow your "ally" to trap you in an Iron Curtain. It's genuinely that simple. Note that if you agree to the Curtain in exchange for various large payouts, it's a contract, not a trap. (See also: Logical definition and identities.)

 Once more, a different angle: your institution will become corrupt. The liars plain want it more - you can survive being farmed like cattle, but the farmer-mosquito will die if not allowed to suck blood. Liars, banned from lying, fail and die. Once the Pope becomes a liar, you're fucked. You cannot replace the Pope. "The Pope is a liar." Pope: "No I'm not, heretic." You cannot take their cult away from them; they've seized the means of security. No repair or redemption is possible. The only solution is to leave that cult. 

 It's important, so I repeat: a group is legitimate if and exactly to the extent that you can leave.  


 It all comes back to demand for Truth.

 If you demand Truth, you will get a good Pope. The Pope, responding to your demand, will, whether I help or not, implement many things to ensure the Pope remains a Truthful Pope, i.e. himself. He will delay the descent into corruption for as long as possible, precisely because you are already safe. If he keeps it real and good, you stay. If he fails, you leave and join a real and good cult. With Exit, corruption and treachery is self-limiting. With demand for Truth, you are always in a good cult. White government.


 P.S. Kant was right. Lying inherently subverts communication. Lies are not speech, lies are violation. There is no such thing as a white lie. Even if the particular lie can't cause harm, it normalizes lying. It normalizes treachery.   

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the response to my question. This is the only blog I consistently read (~5 years), I've yet to find any other remotely as thought provoking. Do you have any recommendations (blogs/books/other)?

Alrenous said...

You're welcome.

Recs: None active.

Maybe http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/

Basically you've seen anything I might recommend. Early Moldbug. Gregory Clark. I've linked all the good twitter feeds more than once. If you missed one I don't mind repeating it.

Make sure you're subscribed to my twitter feed if you aren't already. https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Alrenous
It may be relevant to you that I've adblocked the 'disagree' and 'troll' tags. They're annoying and useless. I myself rarely use the tags because they show up in the feed - I especially don't want to see stuff I deem a troll yet again.

Speaking of actual twitter, did you see my links threads?
https://twitter.com/Alrenous/status/1152954912218632193

If you haven't I'll do a post containing all of them.

I mainly read fiction at this point. It's less about what's "good" than about what's tolerable. You may have heard - I say all stories are bad, you just like some of them anyway.

https://www.novelhall.com/Lazy-Dungeon-Master-755/
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/23173/the-simulacrum/
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/47340/master-this-poor-disciple-died-again-today

[disciple died] finished today approximately.

Mushoku Tensei has a nearly tolerable machine translation, but has the virtue of not being an incomplete story.

Jim Butcher stuff is fully available on library genesis. Higher quality of prose and other quality, but you have to tolerate some level of Fascist superstition.

Another lightsider I'll recommend: Wurts and Feist's Daughter of the Empire trilogy. Instead of a story about destroying your enemies or showing them, showing them all, it's a story about mercantile building and creation. Rare, different. (With a little destroying your enemies on the side.)

Alrenous said...

There's a really smart guy called Enigmania.

He's good at math. Doesn't post about math anymore... Mainly posts cat videos. http://enigmanically.blogspot.com/
Namefags.

Would you be interested in a short story that treats this question better?
http://enigmanically.blogspot.com/2023/05/the-odyssey-theodicy.html

Anonymous said...

I am following on twitter. It will take me some time to get through all of these, but I did want to comment back in the meantime. Yarvins an interesting thinker for sure, but his willingness to bend over for black government rubs me wrong. I really did appreciate his suggestion of 'The Ancient City' by Fustel de Coulanges; it's easily my favorite book now. If you haven't read it, you might at least check the summary. It was written in the 1860s and is appropriately dense.

Alrenous said...

"The city thus came into being for some time, until its extinction with the arrival of Christianity."

Savage.

rezzealaux said...

wtf mushoku tensei
what's the virtue of this? i didn't ask about yahari cause i didn't remember much but this one i read recently and hated it. it's symbolically consistent in a remarkably large number of ways but then decides the most important part should be a manifestation of erectile dysfunction. what can be gained from reading it?

rezzealaux said...

oh i see. the pattern is value of high internal consistency. this is true of all the story recs of yours i've read. virgo.

Alrenous said...

Dude gets over his ED, gets married, and has children. The children grow up enough to be plot relevant.

Alrenous said...

Indeed it's better than MPDAT, who also has kids, but the author teased us with interesting parent-child interactions and then said, "Nah, he ascends, story over."

rezzealaux said...

i just started watching kusuriya no hitorigoto. the protagonist feels like someone you'd like.