tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post3577555896009930311..comments2024-03-29T14:16:22.091-04:00Comments on Accepting Ignorance: Notes on IQ vs. ArgumentsAlrenoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11119846531341190283noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-78991603174203216122012-03-22T03:50:47.659-04:002012-03-22T03:50:47.659-04:00That makes sense. I usually model IQ as clock spee...That makes sense. I usually model IQ as clock speed, and conversation is in real time. Consistently outdistance the other side enough, and you're having a conversation with yourself. Or else having half a conversation and letting your mind wander while you wait. Assuming they even have the necessary background information.Alrenoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11119846531341190283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-73043735378385633532012-03-21T21:34:00.437-04:002012-03-21T21:34:00.437-04:00Alrenous,
Also...written communication and spoken...Alrenous,<br /><br />Also...written communication and spoken operate in different spaces. I'm inclined to believe (probably your research already uncovered this) that the written mode is far more forgiving of differences in IQ...and far more work (in general) for the author.<br /><br />Similarly...I (4+ sigma ... but most conventional IQ measures top out in effectiveness near or under IQ 160, and I ring the top-out bell on all of them) have spent my entire professional life ( 20 years) focused on teaching folks who are much lower IQ than me. <br /><br />I've taught classes full of ~85 IQ folks (vocational school full of lower class secretaries-in-training learning business english and Microsoft Word ... also dyslexics learning to read), and classes full of 120+ IQ folks (Linux, Android, Web Services programming courses to experienced professionals in Silicon Valley). Clearly, I'm playing outside my comfort-space teaching at least some of those folks. And that's true...but the communication is mostly one-way, so I just have to modulate my presentation to their pattern...and 20 years of practice gives me some skill here.<br /><br />Almost none of those folks become my friends, though. I would be shocked if any of my serious girlfriends (7 of > 6 months over 15 years) clocked in with an IQ of only 130 (Example of someone that didn't make the serious girlfriends cut, who are difficult to talk to, for lack of smarts: she didn't finish her M.S. in math, but has nonetheless worked as a programmer)...and my favorite conversation partners over the last 10 years are clearly in the >4 sigma range (pitifully incapable of communicating with folks who are only 2 sigma, as experienced through many shared interactions -- not that I'm much better -- I am friendlier though). <br /><br />Also...3/3 immediate family members besides myself measured at >3 sigma. I (mostly) think they're all noticeably slow. And, of course, I was able to do (and did) College Level computer science classes (assume age 18, IQ 110) at Age 9. <br /><br />Enough biography...My assessment is that the 2 sigma analysis is pretty clearly correct...if you're talking about extended two-way interaction. Writing, Teaching...completely different models.Aretaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850678936908894274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-45950624577335238092012-03-18T00:32:52.086-04:002012-03-18T00:32:52.086-04:00I'll probably clean these comments up. Perhaps...I'll probably clean these comments up. Perhaps one day I'll be able to write while taking into account a lack of edit button.<br /><br />So you got me curious, I ended up finding it. It's from the research of one Leta Hollingworth. But first...<br /><br />So there's <a href="http://www.alifeofthemind.com/2011/02/13/mensa-iq-the-30-point-gap-and-the-outsiders/" rel="nofollow">this.</a> It makes me think someone extrapolated from the psychologist's retard and gifted thresholds. It gets bonus points for mentioning Mangan and OneSTDV.<br /><br />Now the relevant quote and source,<br /><br /><i>"“… generally speaking, a leadership pattern will not form--or it will break up--when a discrepancy of more than about 30 points of IQ comes to exist between leader and led” Children Above 180 IQ Stanford Binet: Origin and Development (1942 p. 287)."</i> (<a href="http://thefuture101.com/" rel="nofollow">Quote source</a>.)<br /><br />A <a href="http://prometheussociety.com/?page_id=33" rel="nofollow">decent summary</a>, from which I found the name to search for. Ctrl-f "leader " including space.Alrenoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11119846531341190283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-44074646577817511072012-03-17T22:58:39.516-04:002012-03-17T22:58:39.516-04:00Oh, you mean originally originally. Auto-facepalm....Oh, you mean originally originally. Auto-facepalm. <br /><br />No idea where I first saw it.Alrenoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11119846531341190283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-52308209451000813012012-03-17T22:52:04.886-04:002012-03-17T22:52:04.886-04:00It's from the very bottom of the post. It was ...It's from the very bottom of the post. It was pretty convenient, since I'm comparing my IQ to someone claiming that he shouldn't be able to talk much to anyone below 150. <br /><br />Delta 30 is confirmed by politician IQs, which rarely range over 130.Alrenoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11119846531341190283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5204863782883637837.post-63673568800515257242012-03-17T21:03:23.037-04:002012-03-17T21:03:23.037-04:00Where does that quote on the IQ differences impedi...Where does that quote on the IQ differences impeding communication originally come from? I´ve read several versions, the lower end starting at 15 points making a conversation impossible.<br /><br />30 does make sense.spandrellhttp://bloodyshovel.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com